Anticipating Collapse

“Anticipating Collapse”     damariszehner


“Collapse can’t happen soon enough, as far as I’m concerned. By collapse, I mean the breakdown of the complexities of our current society.”


The pace of collapse is a difficult topic to define in regards to good or bad.  It is clear we are in a collapse process of sorts now but one punctuated by growth also.  The problem with this undulating plateau of a growth-based world entering a collapse process is much of the growth that is occurring is bad investments in regards to longer term sustainability.  This includes so called green investment which is many times fake green.  The pace of this decline is critical to survivability because degree and duration of shocks dictate species survival in an ecological succession.  While our species may survive a decline our institutions so important to (so called) civilized people might not survive.  It is likely we are going to have to have a little bit browner decline than many greens would like.  The KEY is behavior not tech.  Tech comes second.  Until greens realize this they are doomed.  Too many greens do not accept failure but that is the starting point for proper behavior.  Once acceptance is found then mitigation and adaptation can be embraced.  Acceptance does not ensure survival of our cherished institutions but it does give us hope


“But there are two points I want to make about collapse: that it is inevitable; and that it is necessary before genuine reform can take place.”


It is true that nature is categorized by evolution and succession of complexity.  It is likely our civilization may be too brittle to adequately change but it is also true that often shocks that create crisis are essential to behavioral changes and this issue of a better collapse is really about behavior with tech second.  In regards to the tech it is about properly applied tech with a gate keeper of a wisdom honed in a decline process IOW a wisdom that has gone through the stages of grief and is orientated to decline.  This orientation means choosing less complexity but relatively based upon the rate of decline.


“collapse now and avoid the rush,” as John Michael Greer puts it.”


This is what talks about.  It is about localism and acceptance of a coming collapse process.  Collapse does not have to be bad it can be a way of life.  REAL Geen calls it green prepping.  It is a journey not a destination.  The destination is likely collapse for all of us but the journey means some will collapse sooner and harder than others.  Be one of those who tries to adapt to this.


“But the future doesn’t need to be a Book of Eli scenario of blasted landscapes, gangs, and cannibalism.”


The sad reality is when Hollywood gets involved the picture is clouded.  When our best minds in academia are in denial then the good aspects of a decline process are not expressed.  It becomes an issue of “failure is not an option” pushing crazy green initiatives that will likely fail instead of a measured retreat of civilization that is both green and brown.


The bellow article is another good article on FAKE Green.  It presents a profound concept of “down-cycling”.  This is what we are in danger of doing with renewables.  We are already doing this with recycling.  If one considers the labor, water, and fossil fuels it takes to separate and then try to utilize recyclables we see down cycling fully.  Yet, it is better than nothing at all but let’s not call it green.  Here is a definition:

“Downcycling, or cascading:

is the recycling of waste where the recycled material is of lower quality and functionality than the original material. Often, this is due to the accumulation of tramp elements in secondary metals, which may exclude the latter from high-quality applications. Wikipedia”

Downcycling is a great concept to describe blind techno optimism with its complicated tech and quality destroying efficiency.  Efficiency can actually lessen the quality of life with nature and human social life.  A concept that needs to be added to this blind techno optimism is simplicity.  Simplicity with its essential component of wisdom:

Wisdom     Knowledge of systemness:

“Knowledge of systemness is the hardest won knowledge there is. It includes not just ordinary knowledge, but wisdom as well – the knowledge of what ordinary knowledge to gain and how to use it. This will be more valuable to some future population than computers or solar collectors because from this knowledge all other technical aspects can be regenerated.”

We are now at a time were less is better than more in regards to knowledge and tech.  This is where FAKE Green is a failure.  FAKE Green wants more for less but too often diminishing returns destroy value and Jevons Paradox makes efficiency mean more with more leading to less.



“Vaclav Smil on natural gas (ethane) and plastics”     energy skeptic


“The effort of collecting, transporting and cleaning plastics for possible recycling has largely failed, created much more pollution and contributed massively to climate change. The idea of burning plastics and using the energy to heat our homes was proposed by the plastics company Dow more than 30 years ago: it suggested treating all plastics as “borrowed oil”. At that time, ordinary domestic waste had a calorific value of low-grade coal, so the suggestion was that this waste should be burned in efficient plants with heat recovery and treatment of the gases produced, perhaps even trapping the carbon dioxide produced, rather than trying to recycle the complex (and dirty) mix of plastics.  Today, with higher use of more complex plastics, this makes even more sense. Mixed plastics cannot really be recycled: they are long-chain molecules, like spaghetti, so if you reheat and reprocess them, you inevitably end up with something of lower performance; it’s called down-cycling.”  While this could be polluting if not done right, people will certainly turn to burning plastic and anything else they can get their hands on at some point of energy decline. Better to do it correctly now in an incinerator than in backyards in the future as well as to protect our land and waterways from plastic pollution right now.”


“In 2010, packaging consumed almost 40% of the total (mostly as various kinds of PE and PP), construction about 20% (mostly for plastic sheets used as vapor barriers in wall and ceiling insulation), the auto industry claimed nearly 8% (interior trim, exterior parts), and the electrical and electronic industry took about 6% (mostly for insulation of wires and cables).  All of these products begin as ethane. In North America and the Middle East ethane is separated from natural gas, and low gas prices and abundant supply led to surplus production for export and favored further construction of new capacities: in 2012 Qatar launched the world’s largest LDPE plant and, largely as a result of shale gas extraction, new ethylene capacities are planned in the USA (Stephan, 2012). The dominant feedstock for ethane in Europe, where prices of imported natural gas are high, is naphtha derived by the distillation of crude oil.  Plastics have a limited lifespan in terms of functional integrity: even materials that are not in contact with earth or water do not remain in excellent shape for decades. Service spans are no more than 2–15 years for PE, 3–8 years for PP, and 7–10 years for polyurethane; among the common plastics only PVC can last two or three decades and thick PVC cold water pipes can last even longer (Berge, 2009).”

REAL Green Carbon Ranch

The carbon ranch is in an expression of the permaculture side of REAL Green.  What REAL Green does with permaculture is go hybrid with the old ways and new ways to achieve the goal of local sustainability with resilience.  The side benefits are increased benefits to local wildlife plus increase in the health of soil and water through REAL Green permaculture practices.  Rotational grazing with smaller stocking rates on polyculture pasture by multispecies grazing lowers machinery and chemical use.  Small scale hay production with low horse power equipment is lower carbon.  REAL Green intends to go electric with solar power charging of an electric tractor when available.  Real Green goes further with energy production by using a sustainable wood lot for wood heat but also solar energy to heat and supply power.  This energy production is hybrid and still uses the grid.  It is the hope of REAL Green the grid goes greener with more renewables.  The reason for the hybrid of grid and off grid strategies is the increased resilience of the two.  REAL Green is realistic about power and understands the benefits of both.  The grid is reliable and on demand which is useful with varied situations a REAL Green finds himself in.  REAL Green also is dedicated to efficiency strategies that lower consumption foot prints.  These are both technology and behavioral.


REAL Green is based on localism because that is the proper human scale but REAL Green is realistic and understands a REAL Green Ranch must dwell in a delocalized world that is carbon intensive.  This delocalized world is with people too who live on demand and discretionary in regards to consumption.  Many people do not factor in resilience, sustainability, and permaculture into their daily decisions but REAL Green does.  Activities are reflected on in this regard by REAL Green.  A trip to town is carbon intensive so the trip is multi-tasked.  Food waste is minimized by feeding animals what is left.  Localism means focusing on doing things at home avoiding road trips for enjoyment yet REAL Green realizes significant others are not REAL Green so there is flexibility to accommodate significant others who don’t embrace REAL Green.  This includes low carbon travel because REAL Greens point is localism enhances the Ranch and travel diminishes it.  That said some educational trips are beneficial and embraced.  Conservation strategies are embraced.  Lights are turned off when not in use.  Showers are done as needed instead of as a routine.


Consumerism is reduced but also adapted.  REAL Green embraces a decline paradigm so it is green prepping.  Consumerism is REAL Greens access to a bounty of high-quality material for the REAL Green Ranch.  REAL Green collects and stores the best material and tools for future use.  These items have longevity built in.  An emphasis is on low tech and simplicity. A REAL Green farm will have plenty of hand tools but also exceptional high-tech tools like solar, batteries, and digital tools.  REAL Green understands we are carbon trapped and path dependent so industrial agriculture is accepted as necessary in the fabric of the gradient of decline of a world in overshoot.  This means REAL Green does not try to replace industrial agriculture but offers seeds of change for the local for when planetary and social decline drives the local into less affluence.  REAL Green behavior is an add on for anyone including industrial ag.


Green prepping and low footprint living for the benefit of the planet is good and offers meaning.  It does not come cheap because it is hybrid and redundant for increased resilience and sustainability.  Hyper efficiency of the status quo seeks to drive cost down by whatever means.  REAL Green instead seeks to lower cost rationally when applicable in this regard.  A solar system is not cheaper than all electric but the resilience has a value.  Low stocking rates make an operation less efficient in regards to scale with volume but low stocking rates benefit the environment.  Vegetables are cheaper at Walmart but the taste and benefit of having food sources locally has value.  REAL Green uses the status quo to leave it so the value in that mentality is primarily about localizing delocalization.  Scale is the basis of REAL Green.  Humans are not scaled properly and this is primarily the problem with behavior and environmental degradation.  Since our environment is now a delocalized Anthropocene to inhabit, one must adapt but also mitigate.  The mitigation is localizing the damage delocalization does.


Ultimately REAL Green is about the wisdom of less.  The reason less is the focus is the fact that we are faced with too much from the delocalized world.  Costs drive us to delocalize because economies of scale and comparative advantage offer cost advantages.  Cheap energy allows transport that harms a local both with products introduced but also the delocalizing ability to leave the local.  REAL Green balances these demands with localism and resilience in mind.  Currently REAL Green localism is not even on the radar screen and for those who read these words REAL Green may be considered nutter.  That will change as the collapse process intensifies.  Since REAL Green is behavioral it is about the meaning that comes with increasing the strength and survivability of a local.  REAL Green does not have to be a ranch but permaculture should be a component.  Real Green can be a trade and might include travel like life found in sailing.  Scale dictates REAL Green value.


“The Carbon Ranch”     resilience  carbon ranch picture     marin carbon project


“why is society so obsessed with high technology as a solution to our problems, including climate change, when the low technology of nature could be more effective? Why not use the power of photosynthesis as a solution instead?  In the op-ed, I argued that we could store carbon in soils by: (1) switching to planned grazing systems using livestock, particularly on degraded land; (2) restoring riparian and wetland zones; (3) protecting open space from development; and (4) implementing no-till farming practices.  “The time has come to bundle them together into one economic and ecological whole, which I call a carbon ranch,” I wrote. “The goal of a carbon ranch is to reduce atmospheric CO2 while producing substantial co-benefits for all living things. These include local food production, improved ecosystem services, restored wildlife habitat, rural economic development, and the strengthening of cultural traditions.”

REAL Green New Years Message

I am a green prepper which means I am going low carbon and local for multiple reasons.  I care about the planet and I am seeking more resilience with sustainability.  I call it REAL Green  This starts with acceptance of a systematic decline process that is both with human civilization and the planet.  It springs forward as an optimistic pessimist.  This incongruous juxtaposition meshes by looking at the journey not the destination.  The journey is a departure into an alternative way of life.  The end is acceptance of a dying of the status quo we have been habituated to.  Once the stages of grief involving the decline of place and our way of life is accepted then one goes forth in a hybrid way to restore the local but with the help of the delocalizing global world.  This is again a juxtaposition and a tricky one.  One lives in a hybrid life of being in the status quo to leave it.


The world is now Anthropocene which means we are path dependent and carbon trapped.  Within this trap there is free choice to adapt and mitigate the decline of the planet and civilization by a hybridization of the best material and practices of pre-modern and the amazing advances of the modern.  Low carbon capture is the key to this but is also unsupportable for most without support from the status quo of making a living to pay the bills.  High volume and intensive efforts are required these days to succeed in agriculture they also destroy the harmony of the local environment.  This means you must pay to go low carbon.  You may be lucky to cover cost and your labor will go unrewarded.  Restoration efforts cost money and time without economic return likely for years if at all.


I do a multispecies rotational grazing operation with goats and cattle.  I do this with low stocking rates.  I chose this mix because my fields through years of being left to themselves have developed a polyculture pasture of numerous plant types IOW they are overgrown with invasives but also have rich stands of grasses both native and introduced, weeds, and brush.  Goats and cattle manage this pasture type well.  This allows me to greatly reduce diesel needs for mowing fields and lower significantly chemical use.  Chemicals are only used along fences and not every year.  I also do renewable power and biomass heating. This involves introducing modern elements of low carbon capture with excellent tech.   I am utilizing biomass in the fields with hay and animal grazing.  I have gone low horse power with collecting hay in small batches at optimum times.  I hope to get an electric tractor if one becomes available to be powered by solar.  I also have custom haying done by contractors mainly in an effort to have some fields adapted to hay production.  I do this operation along with land dedicated to natural growth for wildlife.  I have a garden, orchard, and grapes.  I have opened my farm to beekeepers with several hives.  I garden minimalist because I don’t have time to specialize.  I also have chickens.  I have livestock guardian dogs that also serve as potential security.


REAL Green involves doing the basics of prep with security, food storage, and basics of sheltering.  This way of life involves a triage effort of distancing oneself from delocalizing lifestyles that damage a healthy local.  This is done with a relative effort that does not damage status quo ties too much.  You do not want to alienate and destroy status quo connections that support your efforts.  Significant others can be alienated by radical efforts.  You do REAL Green under the radar screen but are honest with those who seek this way of life.   The basic REAL Green effort means primarily trying to limit the car and consumer culture when ever possible.  REAL Green is a relative effort which means you live in and out of the status quo.  This is both with relationships and with place.  The relative part is a balance of the status quo and the departure from it.  Your significant others will most likely not be committed REAL Green.  Your place is probably not REAL Green because of delocalization.  Yet, it might have the bones of a beautiful REAL Green monastery with a local both natural and human that can be restored.


Since we are Anthropocene dependent you must adapt to it to leave it.  You mitigate the worst of it but with the mentality of being trapped and dependent on it.  If you have the time and the resources you attempt to build a REAL Green monastery that is a manifestation of low carbon living and green prepping.  It is about knowledge and wisdom.  The knowledge is the best of the old and the new and the wisdom is choosing what to use and not to use.  In this day and age most of the wisdom is about what not to use and avoid.  This is also about building up something for the younger members of the family and local.  They will see the worst of the decline process.


This process is uncertain because of the nature of decline.  Decline involves abandonment, dysfunction, and the irrational so a cascading drop in economic activity and support is possible.  It is also possible this could be a drawn-out affair.  We are at the cusp of change with many exciting techs that offer constructive growth but within a time of overall destructive change.  This destructive change revolves around planetary decline and a late stage civilization creaking from overshoot of numbers and consumption.


REAL Green is local and individual but reaches out to community and ranges to affect as much local as one can but with the wisdom of localism as its mission.  This is about deep adaptation to shocks that involves attempts at resilience through relinquishment and restoration.  This is another incongruous juxtaposition that points to a paradox of living REAL Green.  To build up you must tear down just like nature does with succession and evolution.  You emulate the planet and thereby strengthen your local with the understanding we are now in succession both human and natural.  The planet will support you because this is the WAY. This means we are moving down a gradient of decline into a world that is altered by less complexity and more disruption.  New niches will be created as old ones are destroyed.  You position your REAL Green monastery to hopefully be a seed of change.  This is not a religion it is an add-on to your higher power that is your own personal quest for the truth integrated with the planet and its cycles.

REAL Green Failure

Discussing total doom Is not saying total doom will happen quickly.  Binary behavior that is not capable of seeing a world of grey is what techno optimist tend to be.  Doomers have evolved and others  have gone delusional and now think we are in a techno age of solutions.  This could not be further from the truth.  We are now in a decline and decay process.  This is across the board of human behavior and planetary realities.  There is great tech evolving that could allow mitigation but it shows no evidence of saving us from the traps we are in.  Path dependencies that got us to this point of failure revolve around techno solutions and we somehow think different tech solutions will get us out of trouble.  The so-called golden decade of the onset of renewables was a time of destructive central bank policy that now has the world in a debt trap.  The peak oil crisis was papered over with the malinvestment of debt.  We are also in a carbon trap that means the renewable fantasy of green techno optimism will hit a brick wall.  Renewables can do much for our civilization in decline but it is showing no indication of overcoming the carbon trap.


The biggest issue is behavior and techno optimism is just another example of the behavior that must change but won’t.  If they didn’t learn from the last 10 years they never will.  A techno optimist thinks failure is not an option when we are already failed.  Modern man can win a retreat from this decline process but that means tough adaptation actions that acknowledge retreat instead techno optimist are on the offense.  Climate protests are an expression of this offensive behavior that is doomed.  Humans must downsize and live less energy intensive lives.  This does not mean more efficient tech it means less consumption and less people.   Tech can be part of it but not the driver.  This kind of degrowth behavior will be destructive there is no putting lipstick on destructive policy but this will be an organized retreat embracing decline not denying it.


Humans must reduce the bad behavior that has no future instead central banks have enshrined the status quo in growth-based behavior.  This continues the energy orgy behavior by repressing and easing the dysfunction of growth-based activities green or brown.  This has allowed investments without good ROI.   The planet is getting tougher on frivolous investments and we are covering that up with debt.  Policy adaptation is needed but wise policy not delusional policy.  Europe is making some good policy steps but will likely ruin it by overplaying its hand of continuing the unsustainable.  Renewable and EV centered policy could be recognized as a mitigation step but not a transition paradigm.  You may think well it is better than the alternative.  To a point this may be true but just imaging this alternative policy properly applied then one can see the wasted resources that might be much better applied with proper behavior adaptation.


Proper behavior would be policy stepping back from growth proactively understanding this process means recessionary results.  Degrowth policies mean a strangling of globalism but also allow for better adaptation to the reality of decline.  The climate response is a sham because loop holes are large and fake policy hides the truth.  Climate is lost as is the health of the planet. Less destructive behavior along with mitigation strategies should be where the bulk of policy and resources need to go.  Instead the world will purse tech-based growth that FAKE Greens tout as a green revolution with support of the brown status quo of fossil fuels and growth.   Renewables and alternative transport are not green and cannot be made green.  FAKE Greens are embracing growth and the transport culture when this is what is the problem.


Localism is the answer and this involves a degrowth of globalism simultaneously with a growth of local efforts.  Instead FAK Greens are trying to green up the status quo.  Local efforts will not provide the profit numbers needed by globalism.  What is not admitted by techno growth driven people is the fact the system requires financial repression and easing to survive.  This means globalism and techno growth have already failed.  The numbers have just been massaged and the bad economic behavior supported financially.  Since the proper actions of degrowth along with targeted growth locally is not going to be embraced this ensures that the behavior FAKE Greens are pushing is a failure too.


REAL Green would start with the behavior of failure driving a policy of reeducation and center around mitigation strategies.  Grand renewable policy of a Green New deal that is touted by regions like Europe or political classes like the liberal left will be a failure.  Some of their policies will yield some good tech but it is the behavior that will waste valuable resources.  At a point the effort to go carbonless will fail.  It will fail because the carbon trap says we can’t maintain a human scale that is global and go carbonless.  There is too much consumption by too many people.  This means we will get to doom but by a route of delusion and deception of FAKE behavior both Brown and Green.

REAL Green Traps

If you are honest about science then one realizes we are path dependent systematically with multiple problems that combine to be predicaments.  I don’t need to repeat them other than to say normally scientist ignore economics which is also a problem with a decline process that means our ability to manage all the other problems will decline and this overall decline will further cause the economics of humans to decline.  It is a vicious circle.

We are carbon trapped so renewables are little more than a short-term techno fix.  Our modern greens are very delusional on this subject.  We also have the modern greens preaching degrowth that is delusional because systematically globalism must grow or is comes apart.  Degrowth will crash the economic system that powers our ability to mitigate the predicament of being path dependent and carbon trapped.  We are clearly in a paradigm of decline on all levels.  Even intelligence is splintering into unwise areas of noise that actually lower overall intelligence because of the corruption of quality intelligence.

Behavior is the key and proper behavior accepts we are in a decline process.  Proper behavior can be reached through Kubler Roth.  Once we are at acceptance than proper behavior can be adapted and then and only then can techno solutions be applied.  This also means the destructive change of degrowthing can be embraced.  Degrowth means abandonment, dysfunctional, and irrational.  Degrowth must be part of the process once behavior has been adapted.  Degrowth and techno solutions then are applied in a proactive way to adapt and mitigate to decline once acceptance of failure is reached.  This means embracing decline with science and engineering but also education and leadership.  This would be like an organized retreat where an army has a flexible withdrawal in force.  If we do not get proactive and begin retreat the decline process could become like a disorganized route.

Of course, the above is just mind games because we are path dependent in the bigger picture.  Common agreement is not there.  We are in competitive cooperation in the big picture which means we tolerate each other to allow survival but we continue to try to overcome our neighbors.  There are no solutions at this level and there can never be with populations at the level it is and with the consumption levels that allow populations to be at this level.  This is a duel force preventing mitigation at the highest levels.  This then means the only place to find solutions is lower down the chain to where humans scale properly and that is some kind of local and small community.

This is where people can change and make a difference but of course only in regards to mitigating and adapting to decline that ultimately will lead to collapse.  The key to all this is behavior that produces a local wisdom that accepts decline and failure.  This then allows a success of sorts that is a local that has increase resilience and sustainability in the face of human and planetary decline.  It means getting out of the denial of death on multiple levels from the personal to the community.  It means lifeboats of techno solutions and hospices of behavioral changes.  The top is gone just as the planet is gone as we once knew it but the local is not.  Restoration can be done to the local in the sense that the natural and the human can be strengthened.  For a cascading decline process over time frame unknown.

The key point here is it must be done in the reality of we are in the Anthropocene of globalism and planetary decline.  You can’t leave globalism and expect to have the resources to power a stronger local.  You will have to utilize dirty behavior of human growth to leave it.  This means a hybrid of using energy intensity to get to where you can live low carbon.  Yes, low carbon is not economic but it the only salvation for the decline process.  So, you build a low carbon life with energy intensity of modern life.  You do this dirty activity to leave it.  You do it relatively and with an advanced behavior that requires strength of being in a twilight zone.

This twilight zone is the surreal of embracing a world you are trying to leave.  To do this one must be practical, flexible, and honest.  You realize there is no hope at the top and with the future of our status quo but you know you can make yourself stronger and more resilient for this process locally.  This is a green prepping.  It is embracing the planets current ecological cycle of succession.  This is non-negotiable and there are no other planets to go to.  We are trapped and the only way out of the trap is to live within it.  Use carbon to go low carbon.  Adapt behavior to low carbon.  Accept death all around and through that create a rebirth of new life that will come from death.  This is how nature operates so emulate it.

Let’s REAL Green Greta

Let’s be fair to Greta whether she is genuine or a stooge, it is likely her generation that will experience the worst of what is ahead.  If only climate change were the problem.  In fact, climate change may not be the worst immediate problem but that is what FAKE Greens want us to believe.  They want us to believe that there are techno solutions if and only if we employ them.  This means both employing and taking away.  Yes, both so called green growth and green degrowth are touted as what will save us if we would only follow messages like Greta’s.


Honest science that is not myopic with climate specialization, will notice that the trap we are in is both carbon and path dependent.  The carbon trap is obvious to honest science.  Renewables show no evidence of having what it takes to replace fossil fuels and maintain the status quo.  Honest science points to the fact that renewables appear unable to grow large enough to eclipse fossil fuels let alone replace and self-replicating more renewables when they old wear out.  There is also the inconvenient fact that the climate system has probably already been forced into a new paradigm with system-initiated carbon changes meaning human intervention at this point may be too late.  The path dependencies relate to the fact we are trapped in behaviors and system that got us here.  We may be able to change around the edges but a new system is likely only after the collapse of the current.  Globalism that produces so much to support for overshoot of population and consumption has no alternative and cannot be greened up.  The basis of globalism is energy intensity of value chains, transport and economies of scale based upon consumption these support large populations both in mega cities and rural areas.


So, the climate argument is trapped in physics and economics.  Economics is behavior based so how do you model irrational human behavior?  This then goes to the heart of the issue of the message of Greta and its legitimacy.  She is not acknowledging failure as she should.  I she acknowledged failure and then said we must build life boats and hospices then she would be a true enigma rising above the tired human narratives of perpetual growth by whatever it takes.  She could say that renewables are vital in extending out pain and suffering and degrowth is also vital in cutting out the fat that is waste.  We need to quit bad behavior based growth immediately but doing so is self-destructive to globalism.  She could say we need to choose polices that are proactive and preparatory for collapse and by doing that this ensure collapse will happen.  This shut door is because once you pass through that door there is no turning back.  Once growth policies green or brown are adapted to proactive and preparatory for collapse then globalism will end and with that overshoot will have to adjust to a level of stability far lower.  This assures pain, suffering, and death.


With economic abandonment comes irrational and dysfunctional of the forces of mathematical chaos IOW cascading destructive change has no modeling to determine the outcome.  What would be needed is coordinated constructive change to adapt and mitigate this like emergency maneuvers are for a controlled crash.  Greta can’t go there because she does not believe that nor do her handlers.  This is not an acceptable message by the FAKE Green establishment and of course from the Brown Denialist.  Failure is not an option at these levels.  A message that disruptive of the status quo cannot be gone to.  It is ok to talk about green solutions and even some green degrowth but you can’t talk about failure from collapse.


Greta deserves to get angry but she should study up on Kubler Roth and realize she is still stuck in the first 3 stages.  This FAKE Green movement of techno solutions and sweetened degrowth fantasies will end in depression and once the acceptance part shows its head so much will have been wasted on the bargaining.   Unfortunately, that is human nature so let’s just say Greta deserves to be angry and deserves to learn from her mistakes.  Old 55-year-old people like me did the same and this is part of the reason we are where we are at.  Some mistakes are to big to fix.  Modern globalism is one of them.